Hi yep count me in on your e mail.  December 31st is fine by me. 

I was under the same impression that the 50% final payment and the tax was paid to the notary on completion, that was what i was told by Bruno. 

I have just e mailed alessandra bellanca at G & L, asking her to answer some of the main queries we have all mentioned - lifts, search costs twice, etc and have stated that we would not want to complete until all the building, gardens etc have been completed.

Does anyone think we should put this in writing too??

PS - there seems to be a few Bruno's and Alessandra's about?!?!?

I received my letter this morning re final payment of approx 50%. I will examine it carefully over the week-end.I have no intention of paying this before 30/09/2008, because I shouldnt have to pay it in the first place. I have always been of the opinion that  the final50% + notary fees etc were handed over at notary when I collect my keys for my appt. (Am i mad or did anyone else think this).If im not mistaken I was told this by Alessandra before the meeting with that builder Bruno Verdigleone, who also has an office in Rocella ( is he a solicitor and builder????, for those who have him as their solicitor  and  have met him is he slim, very goodlooking and small in stature with jet black hair). Im going to ring her first thing Monday morning and give her a piece of my mind.

 With regard to completion 30/10/2008. In the meeting when this was being discussed, Alessandra said that letters will go out to all 100 purchasers of vista. All purchasers have to reply to say if they agree with this, or not, otherwise , its invalid and we wait until Dec 2008 like the others. So from whats being said on the noticeboard,( the buyers who use the noticeboard that is)must reply immedietly to their letter stating that they wish to reject this offer and would prefer to wait until 31/12/2008 because of lifts not going to be in, and this would cause a serious health and safety hazzard  to those on 1st floors etc.

If all of you are willing if i get to talk to Alessandra on Monday morning (i also intend to email her), I will relay this info to her that the 10/11 who had signed the letter in July complaining of completion date 31/08/2008 have decided to reject this offer, and now wish to wait until 31/12/2008

I have just spoken to Sam in the IT office who was very helpful.  She says that no money should be handed over until completion which will be around 31st December when it will be totally completed. She said we would need to ask our solicitors why they wanted the money so early as there is no need to pay yet.  IT will inform the solicitors when it is ready for completion, and she said it would be finished by dec 31st but that it would probably all happen a couple of weeks later mid Jan with the notary.  The tax and final 50% will then need to be paid plus land registery fees.  She said that other items on the statement of completion should be queried. 

The water heater is not included and will cost 160E and will be fitted in free of charge by the handy man after completion.  The kitchen will be installed free after completion by a different company. 

I tend to believe the IT people rather than the solicitor as i have been over there a couple of times and found them most helpful.  I do think that we need to get the above items in writing re kitchen and water heater.

oooops...The Party is On!

Then there is a big hairy elephant in the room that we are not discussing.  The Economy.   All four groups have been affected by the downturn in the economy; Builders, Solicitors, Agents and Buyers.  None of us will act hastily where we might lose our money.  

I have it figured we will be paying about 20% more for the purchase due to currency exchange difference on the price of the apartment, taxes and professional fees.  I don’t think any of us feel overly generous nor in a hurry.

Likewise, IC and Builder will not jeopardize losing a buyer with a signed contract and paid deposit.  And as for G&L...bring out those old lawyer jokes, pary's on!

Forgot to extend a welcome to sheffwed (Kaz). Welcome aboard 'owl' pal.

Regarding IC continually stating they are not aware of any change of completion date. The email below was received from Alessandra Bellanca (who was at the meeting with the Builder and berniec) after I asked her to explain why IC are continually denying there is any change to the so-called 'original' completion deadline of Dec 31st. Allowance required for the broken English:

Hi I'm Kaz and have just found this site, I also have purchased a property in Vista Montagna. Its reasurring to see what others think re completion etc. I've just received an e-mail today from Italian connections informing me completion will be December.08 yet GL say october.   

Due to the time of year which is being suggested ,i also cannot see any benefit,of completing before the development is completely finished, i would rather have the interest on my money when does he think he will have the lifts done, i am on the first floor,but i would have no interest in completing what so ever sould i be in a top floor appartment.,and i am pretty sure no one else would either,The development in my view needs to be completely finished who knows you could be waiting another year for the lift to go in once they have your money.My other point would be that having empty lift shafts, in what is a holiday complex would present a level of danger that is far from acceptable in a four story building.its just not on in my view.

Well the property is NOT going to be fully completed by Oct 31st due to the delay getting the lifts sorted out and which, at this stage, is outside the control of the Builder. 

The gist I'm getting here is that there are a number of purchasers who don't see any particular advantage in this new completion date and it is rushing us into parting with the balance. So are we to reject the new compromise and just ride with the December 31st deadline after all? Or will we accept the new completion date of Oct 31st with an added proviso that we will NOT pay over the balance until we get proof that the development is TOTALLY completed - lifts and all - which is the way we were originally advised? We'll need to let GL and the Builder know.

I will have to pay my 50% on completion with my taxes etc., but I have a letter from Italian Connection from many months ago that said not to hand over any moneys until the property is fully completed including. ground works.  I am not paying anything until I have been out to see that the devopment is fully completed as I think it is a receipe for disaster if people do as what incentive does the builder have to finish then?  none.  I think everyone should stick together on this.

Apparently Italian Connection dont use this solicitor anymore because 'he didnt get things done' and they have used several different solicitors since employing G&A. 

Jane --If only we all had your solicitor!!

Have I read your message right - that you will be paying the remainder 50% now? or when the deeds etc are exchanged?

Hi all,   i have just spoken to my solicitor Bruno from Studio Legale Verdiglione, who is based next to the italian connection offices in rochella.  This was the solicitor who they recomended to act for me in the purchae of the property, i bought it very early on 2 years ago probably before they sent everyone to G&L. 

He said he had just got back to the office and vista montagune now has workman on site every day, and was coming along very quickly so he did not think there would be a problem with completing.  The completion date is he said should be October 31st but italian connection will be in touch with the arrangements.  He said that the only monies that i now need to pay were the taxes to the notary together with my final payment and I did not need to pay him anthing else to him as i initially made a payment to him for his work (which isnt much)!  He also said thats when they hand over the deeds.

I would be interested to know if anyone else has this solicitor? 

I hope this is reassuring.  Although I too would be happier with a later completion date.

Just a little add too:--- just been looking on the incalabria forum. Have a look at sign up if u need help for san rocco 2 - page 4 - sounds like they are alittle ahead of us for completion - but no better off, eg lawyers etc and a bill asking for 1600 eurost o connect to utilies!!!

Patsyodea - unfortunately I am thinking on similar lines that beg of 09 may suit better, I know this goes against all the hassles of the date changes -  but now it seems like we are being put under pressure to complete and part with our monies without seeing the development etc.

NONE of us can complete with no lifts in the building - as workmen will be on site while we will be staying in our apartments etc - would never happen here with our health and safety rules!! It seems as though they are pulling the date forward to make us all happy - but in reality they must know we would not consider accepting when the lifts ( although be it out of the buliders hands) are not installed and working.

Just a quick message to everyone who has received their Completion Statement - Check it very carefully as they have on ours shown Reservation Fee as €3,000 and then reduced our 50% deposit by that amount whereas it was in addition - I haven't had time to read letter in full yet as it has just arrived, but agree with other comments from ffodd01, sarandtony and charlie0.

Can confirm we will not be paying any further money until firm answers received.

Charlieo - totally agree!

Have read the letter now in more detail - although it is a settlement proposal there is nothing to sign if anyone should want to agree with it.

Also there is a bit in there saying " you cannot refuse to legally complete the purchase even if there are some minor defects with the contruction work, as you would risk breach of contract, wheereby the builder may be entitled ro desind the contract and retain the 50% deposit paid" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Where do we all stand with that?

Has everyone else had this same letter? With their final statement bill? Noticed on the bill (bottom in small print) aswell if you are applying for an italian mortgage  there is an additional 2000 euros to be paid to cover legal costs and notarial costs??

Also search charges on final bill? Thought we paid these at the start. Does anyone know what we paid for in the beginning - my bill says advise etc of buying a place in itlay - well I have never had any of that from them!

DO NOT TRANSFER ANY FUNDS TO ANY BANK ACCOUNT WITHOUT CONFIRMATION OF WHAT YOU ARE PURCHASING!  

What would be the reason to transfer real money to a virtual bank account three months prior to a virtual completion date?  More importantly, I believe the funds are transferred to or confirmed by the Notary and we do not necessarily have to use G&L's Notary.   

I think it is fair to assume that the builder is requesting confirmation that they indeed have qualified buyers.  However, we all should proceed carefully and in good faith, but do not release your money to anyone until it is time. 

Hi - We received a letter back in April informing us of completion Dec 08   -  After reading all on this site it would appear we all receive different pieces of mail.

Thanks Stephanie for your email and attachments as we have never received this amendment.  Like I say we are all being told different things and having various letters etc sent to us. 

Surely we should all (100 of us) receive the same correspondence.

Very confused - Hope to sort out at our meeting next month.

Back again - also just opened an e mail from IC - saying Oct completion is only a rumor!!!! They have letter from builder saying Dec 08!!!!!!!!!!! HELP!

Do we take it G & L are correct?

WELL just had letter from G & L explaining change of dates etc etc.

Have only skimmed through it at the mo but, seems they want us to get the final balance of funds inc 10% tax etc into their bank account by end of sept!?? Does this sound right to everyone. I assume they will not transfer that to the builder till we are all happy with the completion? But why should they keep it and earn interest on it for a month at least?

Will go back and read through in detail - just all looks a little scary handing over the final payment.

Having just received the recent  inspection report - I think no one should build there hopes up for an October completion. On the report is states next inspection 27th Oct. Surely the place was meant to be fininshed near to that?!? It was not worded as it would be the last and final inspection.

Personally I am in no rush to complete and would rather it be after the winter when the flights are hopefully back.

Many of us have e mailed several times to G & L to get confirmation of the dates/meeting and had no reply, IC have not confimed to us all either. Why should this be taking so long?

No personal experience, but two points to consider:

1) From correspondence received off-line from persons embroiled in taking action against a certain Law Firm, I was informed that the Italian Law Society falls FAR short of the scrutiny that the UK Law Society provides. In fact, it was implied that the Italian Law Society exists effectively in name only for all the protection it offers. It also, apparently, takes an incredible and infuriatingly long time (as in years) to get things through the Italian legal system.

2) Telegraph1000 made a very valid point and we would do well to remember that we accepted GL because we were advised by IC that GL were accountable to the UK Law Society which was much stricter than the Italian Law Society. Considering the Italian based IC made that statement in the interests and best welfare of UK and Irish based purchasers, should we now ignore it?

When I was out in Italy I was told (not by the solicitors, or builder), but by someone else who had contacted an italian solicitor for advise, that Italian Law was more stricter than UK LAW. Now i stand to be corrected by this, but this italian solicitor, said under Italian Law the client is more protected. Has anyone got a definate answer on this.

On the G&L moving to Vibo thing. The law society is correct that G&L can move to Calabria. BUT the law society are not qualified to give legal advice on contract law when they do not know all of the circumstances. They are not Lawyers they are administration clerks.

Your instruction with G&L is based on contract Law.  If you chose them becase they were UK based this is a KEY part of the contract. For many this was the MAIN REASON they chose them. You do not have to accept unreasonable changes to the contract . An instance of a reasonable change is a small uplift in the hourly rate due to inflation. 

BUT it is UNREASONABLE NOT to be protected by the Law Society rules. UNREASONABLE for your funds NOT to be protected under UK stricter legislation. UNREASONABLE NOT to have any -minimal regulation in Italy. Write to them and reject the change and tell them  to bill you from London. Only pay into their previous London client account.

CharlieO

If u have already scanned the letter copy and paste the content onto the notice board, or save the scanned as a word doc then copy and paste to the notice board, this should work. I would like to see  this letter as well , i will send you my email address too

I scanned the letter but not able to send an attachment via this website.  So I'll need your e-mail address to send it direct.  It is a letter on G&L letterhead with signatures so it is best that you have the full copy. 

Weeeel, that wasn't my point. 

Even our original contract states that completion includes pool, parking, landscaping, etc....and even lifts.  That is not even questioned and is expected.  Rest assured, I still believe it will all be done and we are on the right track.   My point simply is that the buyers should not  feel threatened by being penalized 300 Euros per month.  Readers of this forum will probably not be threatened, however there are others that may not stand firm. 

I personally believe we will be pleasantly surprised.  Naturally, I will not be making any flight arrangements without a confirmation letter and final inspection report.  There is a lot of work to be done within the upcoming two months.  If anyone has not received a letter from G&L stating what is to be expected at completion, just let me know and I'll get them a copy of mine. 

Yes you are right ffordd01the ENTIRE development had to be finished by the new date of Oct 31st and this was to include everything except lifts, (which was outside his control) Maralyn P contacted me and says she will represent us at end of Sept, Thats great news, I will set up the meeting for her and fill her in on names etc via the email she sent me. So at least we know we are going to have a good idea of the progress of the appts by end of 1st week in Oct. Im going to email alessandra again and ask her to clarify  completion of complex (pool ,gardens, and car parking). Can others do the same

Well my understanding is that Berniec made it very clear to the Builder at her meeting that the ENTIRE development had to be finished by the new date of Oct 31st and this was to include pool, gardens and parking. So if it isn't complete by due date and we don't pay up, then we aren't liable for any penalty. But the Builder is. That said, the copy of the letter Berniec posted and that's coming to us all shortly, states:

"The builder undertakes to complete the residential complex by 31st Ocober 2008."

There could, though, be ambiguity with the terminology "residential". This could be deemed to imply the living quarters only. We need to get a detailed explanation (in writing) of what this really means from GL. Anyone else care to do the needful? At this stage myself and Berniec are hardly on GL's Xmas list.

I wholeheartedly agree that we are nearing the finish line and need to aim for the best and reasonable outcome. 

My remaining question is that the G&L letter states, "However should compleetion date be delayed by the buyers then the builder will charge a penalty of €300 for each month of delay."  

Are we all in agreement that we will not sign and transfer funds until completion is as our letter to  G&L and builder states; pool, landscaping, parking, interior finishes, etc.?   I do not want to see any of us to be threatened by a penalty but rather we stand our ground to ensure proper completion.  If not, we may end up idle promises that projects  be done in the future and we are left without any leverage.  This is important for all of us.

The very good news is it appears that all parties are willing to muddle this through to the end.  This is reassuring.  Hold on to your hat...it'll be ride until November.

Hi Everyone

I copied and pasted the letter exactly as it was sent to me by email .No signature on the bottom. I agree with ffordd01. We have no other option but to stick with G&L and hope for the best. They are absolutely totally unprofesssional, but I think the main problem is we are all dealing  and corresponding with different people in Giombrone & Law, ( forget about the UK office) I think from now on bombard alessandra ballanca with all queries and questions. She is a partner  in G&L for god sake, and now that we also have Mary from (Meath), who seems to be very helpful in alessandras office bombard her as well,mary.mccann@giambronelaw.co.uk. I think this is our answer from now on. Mary rang me this evening to see did I receive the letter, I told her it was now up on the website for everyone to see, and I also told her to get alessandra to confirm exactly when the originals are going out to everyone, after all, everyone has to reply to them first, before any other steps will be taken. Aftersales at Italian Connection will tell you  all about water heaters etc venerandaextras@italianconnection-life.com 

We are all going to hear scary stories from other websites but try and be practical and sensible about this.

Hopefully, if we havnt frightened her off  maralyn P , will have good news for us at end of Sept. Anyone going out before this.

Update to my last message.

I contacted the UK Law Society earlier for some advice. If we want to continue to deal with Giambrone, then we've been caught by the short and curlies. GL are quite entitled to pursue the path they've embarked on by moving their Real Estate lock stock and barrel to Italy. Unless this new operation is a 'branch', it will not come under UK scrutiny any longer. Apparerntly, it's also in order for them to issue official correspondence without any signature or named reference!!!  Certainly the reasons they outline would appear on the surface to be logical, but, and as would appear from earlier correspondence and other forums, there are a notable number of very disatisfied clients of this Co and in this respect it would certainly be more beneficial for them to move to Italy where cases taken take many many years to bring to settelment. The only options at this stage would be to stick with GL and hope for the best (not a very reassuring way to have to deal with a Co we are paying to look after our best interests) or change Law Firm.

Further to the impending letter that is to be issued. Don't know about any others, but my contract completion date states quite categorically 1st August 2008. Also, if I am reading this correctly, then the penalty of €300 per month for every month delay and which is based on average MONTHLY rental, is a far cry from what we were informed by IC of what we can expect to generate as income in the immediate future when the development is finally up and running. 

If you have any queries / issues regarding such things as water heaters, air conditioning, sockets etc, etc, contact Italian Connection immediately, don't wait until the building is too advanced.

Finally, can we get some reaction to all this please?

Just read the letter Bernie sent on.

I for one haven't a clue what this changeover to Italian jurisdiction means. Is it really better or worse FOR US than having the heretofore protection of the UK Law Society???  Also, have Giambrone the legal right and authority to make a move such as this after we entered into a contract with a firm which guarranteed us UK Law Society protection? This move needs to be checked out with the UK Law Society before we go further.

Can I ask you Bernie if there was any official signature (and one that can be discerned) on the fax of this letter that is to be sent out? Too often in the past, 'official' letters of major importance have been sent from GL without ANY signature or sender's name whatsoever, and from a legal point, this has to be very shaky ground if anything needs to be challanged at a later date. This is far from what one would expect from any professional Law Firm.  The contents of this letter need to be assessed by a profesional. We are not legally qualified or adept to adequately ascertain the true nature of its content or its possible impact on us as purchasers of VM. I would suggest that we need to run this past a truly independent lawyer for expert advice before blindly accepting.

Hi gang, and thanks Bernie for the indepth info.

I rang the Vibo Office looking for Carol Topp earlier this morning, to be informed that she is now back in the London Office. When I asked to speak to someone dealing with VM, I was put through to a chap called Tom Archdeacon (? who is now supposed to be looking after us. He apologised for the delay in getting out the letters (due to some delay which he didn't elaborate on) but said they were on his desk and would be posted out over the next couple of days. He is adamant that the Builder is committed to completing the development by Oct 31st (lifts aside) and stated that it would cost the Builder a lot of money if he didn't. I informed him that this constant lack of communication from GL in refusing to respond to correspondence was leaving clients extremely anxious not acceptable, and I asked him to take this matter 'upstairs' at the next senior meeting of GL and put it on the table for discussion and attention. Hopefully things will start picking up at last. That said, CharlieO's email is not overly reassuring. I've bumped a copy of that link to our local property agent so he can investigate and comment.