Dear All,

Hi Guys
Can somebody explain to me in a few words what's going on at Vale d'oliveiras. We first saw the development 2 years ago and were told it should be ready by end of 2006. We visited again last year as we were still very interested in buying an apartment and were told it would definitely be complete end of 2007 and now I'm amazed to come accross this message board and find all this.

What's happened to the website?

I noted that someone mentioned Dawsons Solicitors and by co-incidence I know one of their partners.

We spoke to Select Resorts today as we were interested in making a booking to stay at the hotel and were very surprised to learn that "the necessary licences haven't been granted yet" and that there are still many apartments for sale, so it's clear that something is very wrong.

If you prefer to contact me on my UK mobile it's 07957224488

Look forward to hearing

Tony (tw99)

I recently sent a text to Simon on his mobile number on this website on 6yh August but have had no response.My email address is hazray@hr001.fsnet.co.uk.

Ray Sanders

We have all bought shares in a UK company registered in Guernsey. Should we not be persuing this 'legal entity'?

The 'Promissory' contract mentions the solicitors  'Dawsons' in Lincolns Inn, London: do they have any news?

How about we all contribute to a 'fighting fund' and get some decent legal representation? We could then place a 'lien?' on the management company along with the other financial interested parties. WE NEED TO GET ON THE  LIST!

If all those on Simon's list agreed, we could quickly raise £50 * 30 (£1,500) . That should be enough to give us some legal 'clout'

Any better ideas? We need action, not bleatings or empty promises.

Regards.

Dear All,

A very good day yesterday, with a further five shareholders joining the list.  As at todays date 9/07/08 we have 29 on the list.

Keep the momentum going, im sure the list will  soon reach 'critical mass'.

Kind regards

Simon

Dear All

We have now collected the names of 24 shareholders and another that I will hopefully contact later today.   Well done everyone and lets keep the names coming!

Kind regards

Simon Pickard

(UK Mobile 07765 238811)

thanks Nick.

Just had talk with other co-owners some who have relatives out at VDO now and they have not been put out on the street!  Nothing seems to have changed.  There is a problem with the web site (provider side) although I do not see any need for a site at the moment they may as well save money.  There has also been a problem with the e-mail system today which may be related.

I have also heard from Bob who apologises as on the last newsletter he had meant to say the next one would be mid July then end August to fit in with his travel plans.

One co-owner I spoke to said he had talked to Bob for an hour 2 weeks ago and felt all was going to plan although very slowly.

Dear All

I am pleased to confirm that the list has now grown to twenty two owners.  This represents over £2m of investment.  Keep the names coming

kind regards

Dear All

I am pleased to report that the list is getting longer and has reached seventeen.

please keep the names coming!

Dear All

I am delighted to report that in a mere five days, I have received the e-mail addresses of thirteen co-owners .  It has been great to share information with these people and already I feel much more positive about the future.  Believe me, there are some really nice people out there!  Please keep contacting me on 07765 238811 (Simon Pickard's UK Mobile) and add your name to the list.

I have no pre-conceived agenda and simply wish to form a group of owners.  Once a substantial group is established we can then collectively decide 'what next''?  Lets face it, the group will be great for holiday swaps, if nothing else!

Our collective aim should be constructive and not destructive.  I have no ambition to be confrontational with the Developer, quite the opposite.  Between us we have considerable talent, energy and resources that could be briought to bear, in collaboration with the Developer.

I support the suggestion of CRH on June 24th that a meeting be held but I still believe that a group should be formed in parallel.  The formation of a group is our only guaranteed method of achieving real influence.

It is quite clear that most of these messages are thrown in by Staff members that are aware of most happenings and just frightfull of loosing their fat compensations and regardless all the uncertainties! The Foe is closer than you think.

Who Knows everything about this Resort and who is worried about loosing it all!

It is a shame to let out to dry!

Simon/Chris

I would suggest,  rather than collecting a comprehensive list of owners, wouldn't it be better to approach Bob and VDO and suggest a meeting to be held with all the owners and everyone else who has a commercial interest in VDO .

If at the end of this meeting, people are not satisfied , then with all the owners in one place it would be easier to decide on the next step.

Half the messages on here are not from owners, and a clear the air meeting with the right people present may be the best way forward. 

I await the June update with eagerness.

Further to Simon's message below I have signed up to this message board (having monitored it for years) to reiterate the need for owners to become more co-ordinated in the sharing of information.

Please contact Simon or me (07770775541 - UK mobile) if you want to be included in this forum.

The aim is completely constructive and thus not anonymous so please, if you are an owner, get in contact so we can collect a comprehensive list of owners.

We all want this resolved and maybe with a collective effort we can assist.

Chris Smart

It is very obvious that only now people have realised that they actually bought

shares in an English Company and thus there will be no Title Deeds as..

No one will be able to use any facilities until the donation of the rest of the outstanding moneys. The moneys surely will be used to pay staff salaries.

1. These properties were sold to British Owned companies created by Bachmann.

2. All the customers bought shares within these Companies.

3. There will be no (Escrituras) - Title Deeds.

4. It all seems that a lot of moneys have been mismanaged and lost.

Dear All

Things have not gone well at Vale d' Oliveirias and unfortunatly appear to be rapidly deteriorating.

My family have been allowed to stay at our 1/4 share Manzanilla villa, having paid circa 50% of the total cost, all in accordance with the contract.  A few weeks ago we were asked to pay a further 40% to take advantage of what was called the 'early bird' offer.   Prior to receipt of this letter the Developer knew of my wifes intentions to stay at the villa with my son for one week.

We refused to pay the additional money, given that the progress achieved by the Developer did not correlate with the 'staged payment' being requsted, all as detailed in the contract.  

Consequently we were refused access to the villa.

Notwithstanding our patiance with the Developer and general support and flexibility, we think that the way we are being treated is quite disgraceful.  We have fulfilled our part of the contract, yet they have not, and now seek to change the terms of that contract despite their shortcomings as the Developer.

Given this situation I now actively seek other interested parties in order that we can collectively do something about this intollerable situation.

It is apparant that the likely best way that we, the owners, are going to secure our money/investment is if we act togeher.  That will likely mean pooling our finacial resources to employ robust legal advice.

I have vast experience in property development .  The inability of the Developer to complete the project, establish a managemet company and secure an operators licience, in my opinion, represents incompetence.

Judjing by the small number of messages on this board, it is likely to take some time to establish a strong group, but I urge you to forward your details to me.  I also suggest you visit the development and collect as many other interested owners as is possible.

Please contact Simon Pickard on 07765 238811 (UK Mobile No)

 it is now clearly obvious our developers

I understood when we were sold the quartershare that the Bachmanns had spent 26,000euros fitting each apartment out, without TV's and kitchens.  Also that they used a company wholly owned by Peter Bachmann to ensure quality and delivery.  So looking at the quote below it looks as though they have overspent enormously to their own company !

Regarding the off-shore company ownership scheme, which we eventually signed up to and which only seems to benefit Bachmann's main company.  i understand that hundreds of buyers were put off by the unneccessary and expensive mechanism and that this has caused the low sales volumes - Savills apparently gave up with it after advising against it.

I further understand from a disgruntled employee that Nick Bachmann was solely responsible for a massive over-spend on the landscaping.

Perhaps it is time the Bachmanns stopped blaming everyone else for their woes, accept their responsibility, start mending fences and put things right so everyone can move on - and why are their bankers not insisting that they do so !!!

sanity please....................................not more insanity !

I have'nt spoken with Nick since his Dad bought him a house in the algarve and he stopped going to VDO, although maybe Bob stopped him - I dont know he doesn't answer my calls either

I can say that the last time I did catch him he admitted that Bob has been a disaster.  Apparently he was thrust on them by their Bank and he was recommended by one of the big accountants - but amazingly he had never worked in portugal, didnt know anything about construction or the legal system.  So no wonder it is all a mess - it should be the accounts and bank that is culpable - you can't blame Bob for not knowing what he is doing 

We have been threatened, like VC below - if we make trouble they will make it bankrupt and we are unsecurred and will loose everything.  So I am no mate of Nicks, but he has always said it is a Bachmann name reputation concern and at some time they will put things right - they hoped Bob could do it but now that obviously isnt the case - so I do think they will sort themselves out - I like everyone else hope it is soon and certainly before all the furniture and TV's get taken away by the Courts - we are down again in June ! 

thanks for your message ponetine 7, wiil reply personally in due course, hi to you all out there. how many of you actually have stayed in the resort. the people at vdo, bob mcgowan, alan jarvis, nick bachman etc are continuing to evade all questions. is there anyone out there who knows the truth , the whole truth and nothing but the truth. when are we all going to meet in sunny portugal with its beautiful blue skies. wonderful people, fabulous scenery.

not ever, unless the people at vdo get on with the job of getting the licence and giving us title to our properties.

arnica

how many properties have been sold in VDO. have you noticed  the properties are not up for sale . how many owners have paid more than 40%, if you pay 90% there are still no guarantees your money is secure. our lawyer has advised not to pay any more money, there is no security, its about time all the owners got together. has anybody out there got any guarantees of their investment.

arnica

our lawyer has been keeping an eye on the court in portimao for us and she says that on 17th december rio laranja tried to over-turn the arrest that vale d'oliverias has on the property - she says that they failed, the arrest will stay on - your lawyers can check this and advice - the information is available at the portimao court reference:

process no 3588/07.1TBPTM-A

pages 433 to 456

Hallo, I can provide services in real state adviser.

If you interest send me a e-mail: RealStateAdvisers@gmail.com 

best regards

Dear all

I wonder if someone can answer my questions please, because I’m feeling completely lost. I really don’t know if Bob and Nick are transmitting all and the same information to us.

The huge lack of communication is driving me crazy. I know, and believe me I do know, that there are several liens (arrests) registered on the whole property of Vale d'Oliveiras in favour of the management company, and other creditors companies.

So,

-          How can we register our quarter shares contracts?

-          The resort is not finished yet. Why? If I remember, September 2007 was the final date. So we are in October and where are the licenses to open and run the resort?

-          Everybody hears that Vale d’Oliveiras is on sale. Is that true? If so how can we defend ourselves from a selling process?

-          We all heard that Vale d’Oliveiras fired all the staff, and both companies involved are in dispute. All those bad news are devaluing the resort on a daily basis. What about our investment?

-          How can I sell my quarter share? How can I avoid loosing money?

-          I wonder if Rio Laranja is prepared to buy it back without value depreciation.

Unfortunately I have to keep anonymity, because I fear the consequences, and mainly I can not afford to loose money, to loose my investment.

Regards to all

Are you ponentine 5 ?

This message is intended for you, as I also have an interest in that apartment. My nephew was there in September 2007. If you want to hear more about this try sending me an email on

alan.walsh1@tesco.net

with your details, please

The lack of communication to owners on the status of the resort has been one of its biggest failngs.  Full completion of the resort is a year overdue and we're still having to ask for progress updates. There's only one recent photo in the website's gallery (30th August 2007), the rest are from June this year which is such a pity as the resort was looking good when we visited it back in May this year.

On the 10th September Nick Bachmann sent all owners an email in which he stated

"In the future, at the end of every month we will be sending a report on progress, outlining key milestones with regards to both finishing the remaining works, and the run-up to Licensing."

Well, that's just a week away so let's hope it informs us and restores confidence in our investment.

I think the problem that most people have is the flow of information that isn't being passed from the mangement company to the owners , and that is not the correct way to do business.

Nick sent out a letter to all owners on the 10th September , the Arresto , similiar to the English legal figure of ' seizure/arrest '  was filed against the company on August 24th .   I'm sure the situation will be resolved amicably , but why aren't we informed of things like this . It doesn't inspire confidence .

What will now happen is that the person/company, who has filed for the Arrest, will, if they have not already done so already, initiate legal proceedings against the debtor. These proceedings can be quite lengthy, and the Arrest is a precautionary measure to safeguard against such delay. Should the court decide in his favour, and the defendant not have any other means to pay what he owes, the property can indeed be sold in order to pay for the debt in question.

My lawyer also informs me that another fact that is of some concern is that, the construction licence has expired, and an approved extension of said licence has not been provided.

I'm pretty confident that everything will work out well for all of us , but  there are definitely a few issues that need to be resolved before I part with my money .

stanislaw, you seem to be the spokesperson for the Bachmann Group. so whilst we will be calling Nick, urgently, about our unease,  perhaps you would comment for everyone else on the following-  

We have had confimation of the Lien - our lawyer says there may be others being processed and it could be years in court. during which no one will be able to complete contracts 

We paid 75% of the price to get access to the property "earlybird" will the Bachmann Group be paying  money back to owners or is everyone simply unsecured creditors ?

And, if we are stuck in - how much will the condominium fee be for a Marriot Resort ?  We know for a week in a timeshare they are around £500 - so for our thirteen weeks ?  And for those that have the full 52 weeks ???

ponentine 5 out - we hope.......

Having just spent 3  great weeks at VDO we want to reassure owners that Bob, Nick and Alan are working hard to get things back on track and to finish everything as quickly as possible.   The contractors were starting to return last week  and  there were some staff employed from an agency to clean the villas etc.   Our Portuguese solicitor has been in touch with Alan  Jarvis as well as the Portuguese authorities at the Town Hall and is satisfied that progress is now being made, although Bob is still not willing to give a completion date  as this will depend on Camra and how soon they can issue the licences - Portuguese bureaucracy  is notoriously slow.  Bob still has to decide on a new management company  ( OPCO) - either set up a new one or approach an existing company such as Marriot.  Nick is planning to send e-mails at the end of every month to update owners on progress.  If you visit, you will see the place is looking really great with only minor things left to complete.

It doesn't seem as if Bob wants to come out and play but then he wouldn't would he because Bob hasn't been telling the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth in his little comfort letter has he?

My daughter and her family have been there since Wednesday and have had cleaners in every day. In addition they mentioned the pool attendant who hands out clean towels and collects them all in at the end of  the day.

I discussed the matter of charges with Savills and they stressed that in this 'pre-licensing' phase the resort cannot trade and therefore cannot charge. There may be some payment for consumables but I'm not even sure about that. I think that is the point of the 'early bird' payment.

Also, I would  imagine that Barclays always had a first charge on the resort as part of their financing. That would be pretty standard in the UK and so I don't think Bob's comment implies anything new.

All I can say in addition is that my family are there now having a great time and I'm looking forward to getting down there a week on Sunday. I'll be there throughout September and it will be good to finally be relaxing on site.

Dear John S

Which villa have you bought a share in - or have you?

Like most of you I think VDO will be great. I just spoke with a few members of the staff and passed the information. They insist they are not paid since June and therefore they are dealing with lawyers and authorities to get there money. They have left other jobs to come to work for VDO and now they are in a very dificult situation. VDO didn't fire them and so they are not allowed to have social security help. They insist it is illegal lay-outs in Portugal and receive owners/guests without permits and inspections done by tourism, fire brigades and sanitary inspectors. It seems to me that it is not a very nice behaviour of  VDO management and don't reassure me for the future of the resort.

Try to speak with the staff left.

We have just returned from VDO.  and had a great time.  OK not everything is up and running (no shuttle bus) but the visit was well worth it.  With the time we spent in May we have now stayed at VDO for 5 weeks and loved every minute.  This time we had wireless internet and we even played tennis.

With a new complex especially overseas there has to be problems.  We went in to it expecting them, it is not like buying in the UK.  The development is 90% finished.  Bob has been brought in to be a trouble shooter.  This is just what is needed now.  He has no investment in VDO and so no axe to grind, he will now just do the job he has been employed to do.  Just as in the UK no licence will be issued until the building work is complete so Bob has quite correctly said that 100% effort goes into finishing this and getting the paperwork sorted out with the authorities.  Unfortunately this means that for us visiting many facilities are not available but I for one am happy with that in order to finish the building work. 

Dates are not a good thing to give out and Bob has quite correctly said he will not fix any dates for either the building work or the total completion.  I would expect May 08 any sooner would be a bonus. 

The rumours of unpaid workers etc do not seem to be correct.  We have found that the reputation that VDO already has in Carvoeiro is only admiration for the quality.

Go and visit, see for yourselves and dismiss the negative comments posted on this site.  Why are we British so negative and always finding the bad side?

John S's comments do seem to be at best unsubstantiated and at worst malicious gossip designed to destabilise the situation again.

The 'owners' have had a perfectly sensible letter from Bob McGowan setting out the plan of action to bring the project to completion and the best course would be to let that proceed until we have some concrete information to the contrary.

Any advice not to visit VDO seems particularly daft as I would have thought that the more people there on the ground the better to assess the current situation. I'm certainly going out in September.

Similar to your previous comments on the 21st July you appear to make very controversal points but with little or no substance. These comments are only welcome if they are supported by fact as opposed to rumour.

Can you substaniate these points that you have made!