monthly photos get less&less.

why are they painting concrete ceilings with no electric finished.

Cheers Deeks, I actually had an e-mail from Dubai select the other day with some update photos.

Hi everybody ,  I own unit 3005 in The Torch .  I have been last week in Dubai and every thing seems allright .  My only worry is about what kind of building  will be  between The Torch and the canal .  About Dubai Select (Select Property) I only have good words , same than Deeks.

Vincent, Spain 

Hi Matt,

My next payment is due in June,  but I won't pay anything until completion now unless they can give me a clue as to the finish dates. The Torch is now 10 storeys high and includes a fully finished set of offices. If you e-mail Emma at Select Property she will send you the most recent photographs

Deeks

PS if that doesn't work post your e-mail address and I will send them on to you

Hi everyone,

Things have been fairly quiet lately haven't they.  Has anyone been to Dubai lately and seen how the torch is getting on?

Deeks - are the final payments still due in June or is it on completion?  I thought it was on completion.

My experience with dubai select has been ok.  Obviously the delay is annoying, also the new website has still not been updated with my details so I can't see progress photos etc.

Hi, I have bought two fractional ownership periods on two separate apartments in the Torch. The final payments are due in June.

To answer the question about Dubai Select (Select Property) they have always been upfront with me regarding delays etc and I have had nothing but courtesy and co-operation from them. My wife and I visited the site last July. We were taken there by Select Property staff and shown round the Marina area.

What about Dubaiselect anyone had any good dealings with them ?

All gone quiet on THe Torch, seems to be going up, but as anyone managed to sell one of there apartments yet ? or is everyone waiting for it to be finished ?

Dear All,

For two years ago I purchased a 3 bedroom apartment in the Torch. I only payed the up-front fee of £ 1.000. The salesman was strange and I therefore did'nt participate any longer.

Have has the building process and the price level been since then ? Is there a market place for the apartments ? 

Kind regards,

Christian

Hi All,

My wife and I bought an apartment in the torch in 2005 and we are also disappointed that the site won't be finished any time soon!

We have spoken to Dubai select who have given us the advice not to sell our property until completion as this is when we will make our true profit.

Each time we speak to someone from Dubai select we get a different answer or we get "I have to go away and check"!

We are looking to sell up now as 4 years in the making is too long. And we don't know if we are going to get another delay. They assure us there won't be any more delays.

Like someone mentioned on this message forum, they must have had project managers with all there charts and numbers and must have known a delay was possible!?

We are looking to sell up now and buy something that will give us a return more less straight away.

Does anyone know what sort of price apartments are going for and does anyone know anyone that has recently sold one?? Did you sell up or are you trying to? I would like to speak to you about it as we have got very different prices from various people.

 I would like to know the various routes we can take to sell. Dubai Select said that buyers would not be able to take on our payment plan (where we pay every quarter).  They would have to find there own way of paying so either mortgage or whatever. This wasn't mentioned to us when I specifically asked can we re-sell this property before completion. It seems small details like that are forgotten to be mentioned! wink wink.

So to summarise. Could anyone tell me the answers to the following;

1) How much are 1 bed apartments in the torch selling for?

2) Are there any issues that may complicate selling to another investor other then mentioned above?

3) Do Dubai Select charge any commission or fees?

4) Can we sell through another agent? If so who is recommended?

5) How long does the process take?

Cheers and Regards

Dev

Thanks for that Matt.

Regards

Mike

The libor rate I can find depends on how long money is being borrowed for but it is between 5.32 and 5.51%

http://www.libor.ws/

Does anybody know what the LIBOR rate is today, if it's around six percent the penalaty payment still would not pay our costs?

Regards

Mike.

Just tried to go into propertyworldme and they seem to have closed the door!!....basically it was a run down of the laws which apply in Dubai......

Questions. re purchase....has the freehold actually been granted yet? articles 5,22,24 of dubai property law state that a contract is not sufficient to prove ownership, you have to have registered the title at the land registry...it is the certificate that proves ownership....since the land registry had enormous backlogs last time i heard people were not able to sell on....

If you are a future fractional owner read the small print very,very carefully!!!......ask for copies of the laws.....and query everything! Check the company set up, freehold transfer procedure, 'exclusive rights' , where are they in space and time exactly? and right to transfer and when, 'residential' status of the Torch, separation of ownership, rights and responsibilities, virtual products..... Holiday clubs v fractional ownership.....

Article ten Dubai property law states that 'specific performance'(give me my apartment!) cannot be demanded but it also states that even if they don't give you your apartment you do have the right to claim any losses incurred by way of compensation even if its not in the contract!!.....I think the Dubai Select contracts atempted to write this out but you should still have a case by citing the 'unfair contract terms ' law....talk to a good solicitor who specialises in Dubai and UAE laws.

Please let me know how you get on........

Further to my previous post I complained to Dubai Select about the delays and got this response - At least there will be some compensation.

Hello Matthew,

I understand that the news of the delay on the Torch is very disappointing and after talks with DCE we were made aware that they felt the completion dates may go into early 2009 so we wanted to let all our purchasers know straight away.

Because we realise the disappointment this delay has caused to all our clients we will be making payment penalties, as long as you have complied with your side of the agreement, I can confirm that you will be entitled to penalty payments from 31 December 2008.  Under clause 15.1 of your contract these payments are payable until the date when your property is certified completely.

The payments are calculated daily, each day that completion is late, at a rate of 1% above the London Interbank Offer Rate on any money you have paid towards the purchase price up to that point.

We have not yet received confirmation from the Dubai office regarding clearance of you June payment although with the vast amount of payments that have been received there has been a slight delay, please could you forward me the Swift Note Transaction for the payment and I will forward this to the Dubai office to trace the payment,

Should you have any additional queries, please do not hesitate to contact me via the methods below.

Kindest Regards

Emma

Further to my previous post I complained to Dubai Select about the delays and got this response - At least there will be some compensation.

Hello Matthew,

I understand that the news of the delay on the Torch is very disappointing and after talks with DCE we were made aware that they felt the completion dates may go into early 2009 so we wanted to let all our purchasers know straight away.

Because we realise the disappointment this delay has caused to all our clients we will be making payment penalties, as long as you have complied with your side of the agreement, I can confirm that you will be entitled to penalty payments from 31 December 2008.  Under clause 15.1 of your contract these payments are payable until the date when your property is certified completely.

The payments are calculated daily, each day that completion is late, at a rate of 1% above the London Interbank Offer Rate on any money you have paid towards the purchase price up to that point.

We have not yet received confirmation from the Dubai office regarding clearance of you June payment although with the vast amount of payments that have been received there has been a slight delay, please could you forward me the Swift Note Transaction for the payment and I will forward this to the Dubai office to trace the payment,

Should you have any additional queries, please do not hesitate to contact me via the methods below.

Kindest Regards

Emma

I purchased apartment T-710 in Oct 05 and have to say I was really annoyed by the lastest delay.  As previously stated they must have know about these issues when the announced the previous delay in Feb and the fact they delayed the announcement until after the last payment was a bit sly.

Other than the delays I was fairly upbeat about this project prior to reading the comments on this board.

Matt's - your comments about a potential master plan have really set me thinking.  I haven't checked the contract in detail but I am assuming they cannot enforce a refund situation if you want to hold onto the property?  I will be sifting through the contract this evening to check the small print just to make sure.

I'm would like to agree with Mike's comments that the negative publicity that would surround furture Dubai Select properties and others for that matter should make this an unlikely situation.  It would also affect all other developer in the area if they have similar contracts.

I am hoping that the capital appreciation will help offset the rental yeild I am missing out on because of the delays!

I purchased apartment T-710 in Oct 05 and have to say I was really annoyed by the lastest delay.  As previously stated they must have know about these issues when the announced the previous delay in Feb and the fact they delayed the announcement until after the last payment was a bit sly.

Other than the delays I was fairly upbeat about this project prior to reading the comments on this board.

Matt's - your comments about a potential master plan have really set me thinking.  I haven't checked the contract in detail but I am assuming they cannot enforce a refund situation if you want to hold onto the property?  I will be sifting through the contract this evening to check the small print just to make sure.

I'm would like to agree with Mike's comments that the negative publicity that would surround furture Dubai Select properties and others for that matter should make this an unlikely situation.  It would also affect all other developer in the area if they have similar contracts.

I am hoping that the capital appreciation will help offset the rental yeild I am missing out on because of the delays!

Hi everyone,

I am new to this site and i am just about to buy two 3 bed apartments in the Torch. I have just returned from Dubai where i saw the slab which is now done and they are starting the substructure of basement floors etc. I have many photos which i can share as well as some amazing 3d renders from my Dubai contacts which show how the Torch will look when finished and more importantly what the area will look like when the surrounding developments are done.

Can anyone tell me what the original asking price was for the 3 beds when the units were released for sale in May 05.

And can anyone tell me if and how much discount Dubai select will give if you push for it.

Look forward to sharing some info with all.

Cheers,

Devon Boy

Hi Mike,

Thanks for the info - much appreciated.

Lets hope that this isn't the masterplan by Dubai Select as if so surely the negative publicity it would attract would make it very hard for them to attract new customers for any future developments. But then again with the amounts we are talking I certainly see where you concerns are coming from.

Hi Matt

At the moment i don't think so, reading the small print of the contract they can delay the handover for up to six month's using a clause for delays outside of their control, which say said was a delay in the goverment issueing the necessary building permits to move the foundation works forward, ok but we have no proof of this, but they did tell me that the permit showing the delay was available for inspection in the dubai office should i wish to see it!!!

The delay they stated in the last letter is within their control, building materials and trade labour, both can be resolved by pre-booking, finding new suppliers from further afield, recruting , paying a premium labour rate etc, they must use all means possible and be able to prove beyound any reasonable doubt that all efforts were exausted in an attempt the mitigate the delay regardless of cost!

What worries me more is if the contract run's behind for  a year which it is going to by the looks on things' Dubai Select can refund your monies in  full with no penalties to pay for what ever reason.

 should we be in a predicament where it's "costing us" and any losses we incure!this will not be recoverable!!!!

This would leave Dubai Select in a very favorable position.

It would work like this for example,

Let's say i bought my apartment for £150000 sterling in 2005, if by the contract completion' say September 2009 as per the last letter they have failed to meet the handover date, they can legaly repay my £150000 in full, but the apartment that costed me £150000 in now worth something like £240,/ £250000 ish, leaving Dubai Select in a very good position of earning some £80000 of my money (potential profit), times this by the number of apartments in the building (658) and you can start to see my concerns!!!

Dubai Select can quickly move onto another Tower with a very good start  of around £52Million give or take £ten, if you get my drift!

Is this the master plan?

Speak again.

Sorry about the spelling!!!

mmm, was also fairly annoyed to get the letter, especially as I had just paid my next instalment.  Thought the reasons were very weak as its not as if anything has changed since the original completion date was set. 

Is there anything we can do though?

Hi all

I,ve purchased apt 1909,

I received another letter from Dubai Select yesterday, they confirmed that yet again that the atisapated handover has been put back until september 09, this is a full 15 months later that the contract date i signed up too, ie June 08.

it was on 5th Feb this year they sent out a letter saying construction was running 6months late!! taking us to Dec 08, how many more letter will follow?

The contract allows for up 6months delay, prior to paying penalties! Will they get away with another year?, they could buy back your unit in full, after paying the contractor for construction with your money and reaping the rewards themselves!!! am i getting paranoid sitting back watching my money being used to construct a super tower whilst not getting anything in return, is there anybody feeling the same, have you any concerns, have you a piggy bank that Dubai Select could use to fund another developement, they quote the problem for delay is down to the sheer number of projects going on, but this was clearly the case when the project was advertised 18 months ago.

Im in the construction industry myself and we would pay damages if we were this late.

Hi i havent yet purchased any property in dubai.  I was going to buy with Dubai Select on the Dubai Marina into their new project the Bay Central. We had the perfect appartment and everything, but unfortunately decided not to go ahead with it.  Did you buy with Dubai Select? Did you go out and see the property? Who did you speak to?

All information greatly appreciated.

Hi. I have purchased 4403!.

Think will be a while before we see much action. Still doing the foundations.

Andy 12/1/07

hi, we have just come back from dubai,

went to see the plot "the torch" we have purchased 403, surrounding area is fab, photos to follow,