Hello sjp20,

Apologies for the delayed reply.

We had a long Easter Holiday this year of almost two weeks and two working days inbetween but most ppl. took those two days off in order to extend their holiday.

We will have the professional pictures ready in two weeks from today and they will be uploaded on the Orpheus Valley web-site and of course I will post a meesage on this message board to inform you that we have the professional pictures ready.

Hi Nicky

Any news on those new show apartment photos you mentioned at the beginning of the month.  We are receiving e-mails asking us to decide on rental and furnishings, yet we still don't have many detailed photos on what you actually offer only the few on your website, you mentioned having professional photos of a properly finished show apartment.  It would be good if we could have those to assist us make some choices.

Thanks

As currently we started to receive much more emails from owners and I realised that a lot of the owners don't really know great details of the development, so I hope you all know that there will be covered connection in Orpheus Valley linking all sections with the Spa & Leisure centre.

Having covered connection is very convenient in the winter, as you don't have to go out in the cold to go to the Spa and also there will be facilities in the covered connection as well.

Another nice feature of the design of the complex is that each Section has two elevators. One elevator for the guests and one service elevator.

Kind Regards

Nicky Dafovski

Hello Sjp20,

The pictures in this gallery are computer generated images, which were made before we even started building Orpheus Valley.

Just check section FURNISHED APARTMENT which is at the very bottom of the page, there are real pictures of the bathroom as it will be in all apartments.

Usually computer Generated Images give clients a good idea how the apartment will look like which is necessary when you buy off-plan, but of course once the complex is built the furniture doesn't look exactly the same. It is quite a difficult procedure to pick the furniture as you need to check whether the colour of the floor goes well with the colour of the other furniture, courtains etc... Because of that we had to reproduce many of the furniture items in order to reach the result that the management company wanted.

In less then a month we will send a photographer to take pictures of the show apartment when furlly furnished and we will put them on the web-site. We are waiting for more furniture to be delivered. You can get some idea about how the furniture is going to look like in the gallery but I recomment waiting until we furnish the apartment entirely, if you want to take a closer look on details you better wait for looking at more pictures, as we currently don't have enough.

It is not a problem that I spend time on this forum. It is part of my job and It makes it much easier for us when we have a clear way of communication with our owners. It is a pleasure for me to be of some help.

Hi Nicky

http://orpheusvalleypamporovo.com/EN/Projects/ViewPage/178/

Hi this is the website where I saw the bathrooms with the green tiles.  The pictures are in the gallery on the right hand side and under the heading apartments - they show light wood furnishings in the first 2 pictures and then what looks like green tiles in the 3rd picture of the bathrooms.  As these pics are all under the orpheusvalley website I assumed this would be typical of what we are going to get.  Clearly that is wrong though.

When will you be able to post pictures of  the show apartment complete,  including bathroom fittings etc so we can all start to get a better idea of what our apartments will look like?

Thank you for your continued time on this website I'm sure it is reassuring for everyone, also thank you for our e-mails today about the special offer on accessories in the furnishings pack.

Kind Regards

can you please send me an email on: nd@bulgare.org

I will give you all the necessary information.

Kind Regards

Nicky Dafovski

Thanks a lot for your comments.

Doubts:

1.- Do you think that I need a lawyer or could I buy without lawyers and directly with you ?

     2.- If not, please, could you tell me some lawyers buffets that you know in Spain?

3.- If it is ok, could you tell me if I could sign the contract in Spanish ?

Hello PamporovoBuild,

I am the Sales Manager of Bulgare Development.

Can you specify what information you need in terms of Lawyers, selling process etc...

Bulgare Development, we work closely with few investment funds, so we had put on hold few apartments as the investment fund was not really sure which apartments they want to keep and they ask us to put on hold more apartments than they will actually buy until they decided which apartments to keep. This is a common practice when you work with big investors.

Kind Regards

Nicky Dafovski

Hi all,  we are studying the posibility to buy an apartment and I have a lot of doubts.

Is there any person who reserved an apartment and live in Spain?  We need to talk with someone to know how the manage in the selling process, specially lawyers buffet.

Another thing, I am looking that there is a lot of reservations that are cancelled in the last month, do you know why?

Thanks.

Hello again sjp20,

As you don't want to rent out your apartment, it is your choice to decide how to furnish it, which company to use for the furniture and when to furnish it.

We are in a hurry for the furniture of the people who want to rent out and as we have obligations to tour operators to furnish apartments on time and furnishing such a large amount of apartments takes time.

Here are the prices of the furniture we offer:

Studio - Basic Pack 3950 EUR - Additional Pack 1950 EUR

1-bed - Basic Pack 4700 EUR - Additional Pack 2700 EUR

2-bed - Basic Pack 6200 EUR - Additional Pack 2700 EUR

---

Your case is different as you don't want to rent out unlike the majority of the owners.

We cannot offer different furniture choice for the apartments that will be rented out as it has to be one standard. We will consider second option with lighter furniture though. When we prepared the hotel pack we had more than 10 options of different colours and this is what caught the eye of the tourist operators.

There is no green tiling in the bathroom, which picture have you seen?

The prices of furniture were very different at the time whn you bought your apartment and the package we were offering was different. The prices went up quite significantly since then. Just look at the price of your apartment now. The construction costs are going up with more than 20% each year as well. 

We took on board BHMC and they moved the Complex to another level and gave us direction and added more value. Since they came on board we started selling the furniture that we offer now and they put everything in a different frame in terms of standard, cathegorisation etc...

It is very different to offer choice when we are talking about development with the size of Orpheus Valley. Producing the different furniture items in different colours is a problem as we don't order the furniture through one company, it's more complicated.

Speak to Stiliana over your personal case and see what we can offer.

Kind Regards

KInd Regards

Furniture

We have a one bedroom apartment and we have decided not to rent out. 

 But yes I do want a kitchen, because sometimes if my family want to use it then they have small children, sometime fussy eaters and they will need to sometimes use the kitchen for maybe breakfast or lunch etc, also when children are small, sometimes they need to go to bed early and best laid plans for a meal out, can stop without notice so having the flexibility for families to be able to cook is far better (although I agree with you most people will want to eat out in the evening for their main evening meal if possible).

  I do also have some experience of this as I have an apartment in Spain, Ibize and have spent considerable time looking at off plan in Italy where all of the developers offer a kichen included as standard. 

Some developers even offer a choice of tiles for the bathrooms etc. Have a look for example of Sandloka in Italy, the finish is excellent and the choice very good.   I have to say I do not like the green tiling in the bathrooms on the bathrooms I have seen on your photos, they would not be my choice at all. 

However back to the furniture - The price I was quoted for a complete furniture package when we were enticed to buy the property was a total of approx 4609 euros that included a kitchen and everything you could possibly need, without having to rent plates etc.  So to find out now that to furnish the apartment for virtually double that amount (and thank youI already have your furniture sheet and full costs) came as quite a shock to us.  Although we have to remember we were being sold the idea of the apartment at this time so I'm assuming the indication of pricing was of course very under exaggerated.

I do want quality furniture however I do believe in choice as well - hence wanting other quotes for other types of furniture.  As this will be a holiday home for us and our family and friends and I do not want the dark wood furniture that is in your show apartment.

 I take your point about being patient, however I do feel as we have been waiting for this apartment since 2005 and as you keep telling us to order our furniture now! then in order to do so we should by now have a perfect show house to see exactly what we can expect.

As usual thank you for your comments though.  I look forward to seeing more photos of the show apartment as promised and hopefully soon and before any furniture special offer you have is due to finish so that we can all make some fully informed decisions.

Kind Regards

sjp20,

I guess you have a sturio apartment.

The basic furniture pack which is necessary to sign a rental contract costs 3950 EUR.

You are not obliged to buy kitchen, it is optional and it costs an extra 2000 EUR for the kitchenette package. If you iwant to see the list with all the furniture included in both packs just send us an email and we will send the listing with all furniture items to you in an email.

If you are going to use your apartment between 1 and 3 weeks in a year and the complex has few restaurant facilities, you don't really need a kitchen. Of course if you want have a kitchen, you can buy it.

I believe the furniture prices are very reasonable and  you should keep in mind that our furniture covers the hotel standards. The majority of the Bulgarian developers, they sell very limited fuurniture packs in order to drive the price down. In our case we need to follow strict rules about furnishing in terms of quality and quantity of furniture items as Orpheus Valley (as you all know) will be a hotel and we need quality furniture, otherwise if the furniture is cheap (and not good quality) it might look good to the owners as the price will be low, but it will not work for the hotel as we will have to change it once in every 2 years.

Personally, my recommendation to all people who have studios is not to buy the kitchen pack, if it's one or two bed apartment, probably it makes sense to buy kitchen pack but not for a studio. If you want to resell the unit and you believe that it will be more attractive with kitchen in it, just buy the kitchen pack when you are ready to resell, as it will be brand new kitchen.

Just take full advantage of the facilities of the complex and enjoy your holidays while there is currently no other complex in Pamporovo with such a wide range of facilities. I am sure you will be pleasantly surprised when the complex opens doors

You mentioned something about 708 EUR about essentials package. As far as I know we only offer Basic and additional package. For those people who have kitchens and need some cuttlery, plates etc... they will probably get this stuff from reception when.they put a small deposit and when they return the the plates and all the kitchen stuff they will get their deposit back. This is still a matter of debates but I think it will be best to be done like that. Please contact me directly about this essential pack as we want to know who offered you this pack.

As for the dark furniture - the furniture you see on these pictures is not the exact furniture that there will be in the apartment. We are still waiting for a lot of furniture to be delivered  as we had to reproduce few items, because we were not happy with the final result. We hope in less than one month we will have the show apartment with all original furniture in it.

The apartment as it is furnished now was done in a rush as we had a big seminar of agents in Pamporovo and we were keen to show them a furnished apartment just to give them a better idea how it will look like. Our manufacturers were not ready to deliver all the furniture on time for the seminar, so this is why the apartment is still not fully furnished. Just be patient and we will provide you with much better pictures of the show apartment in full shape.

Of course if you don't want to rent out your apartment, we can probably offer some cheaper package with less items in it or you can try and find a cheaper furniture, it is your choice really. We insist buying the furniture from us only if you want to take advantage of the guaranteed rental scheme.

I hope this is of some help.

Kind Regards

Nicky Dafovski

Furniture

Have just gone through my initial paperwork and we were quoted by the agent that got us interested in these apartments 3950 euros for the basic furniture package and for the essentials 708 euros so the cost now of 4700 euros for the basic and a further 2700 for the essentials seems to be incredibly high!

Does anyone else intend to furnish themselves or does anyone have another furnishing company that offers a better price?

Also I'm not keen on the dark wood furniture - was hoping for a lighter colour beech or something?

Thanks

Phase 1:

A&B::

We already have Akt 15 for sections A&B, so all owners there should have received official letter over it, so it is time to furnish the apartments and pay the last installment payment.

D&E:

They will be completed around early May.

C:

Block C will be completed last in phase 1 and we will get Akt 15 around July. This is where reception of the complex is and a lot of facilities.

If you haven't ordered furniture yet and you have apartment in phase 1, please contact Miss Svetla Slavova from BHMC at: rental.orpheusvalley@bhmc.eu , as if everybody orders it right before completion / or in the worst case right after completion, it makes it quite difficult to produce the furniture for so many apartments and deliver it in a short period of time. The sooner we know how many furniture packages we need to order, the better.

Orpheus Valley Apartments (phase 1) - Sections A, B, C, D and E

Orpheus Suites & Spa (phase 2) - Sections F & G

Hello BulgareDevelopmentJSC

Great news about the progress.

By phase 2, do you mean block C?

Apologies, I meant::

rough construction of phase 2 ready before Devember 2008

We must open all facilities on time for the winter season 08/09, including the Spa / Leisure facilities in phase 2.

We should have rough construction of phase 2 ready before December 09 and just acilities there ready to operate. 

The initial plan was to open the spa complex, pool, gym along with phase 2 but as we have commitments to tour operators and we will be much more attractive on the tourist market next winter season with all facilities in phase 2 on board as well. 

Of course phase 2 should be rerady in July / Auguest 2009 as per schedule and host tourist in the winter season 2009 / 2010.

The Staff of Balkan Hotel Management Company is putting together a campaign to attract Conference tourism as we will have all the conference facilities in place and we want to take full advantage of them. Pamporovo is a very popular place for seminars, presentations and team building events of Bulgarian / International companies with branches in Bulgaria.

It;s good to hear things are moving along,

Bulgare, as the developement will be available for use this season 08/09, what facilities will be also completed and available for use ?

We are happy to announce that currently we work closely with Mr. Simeon Tsekov (owner of Mediterraneo Restaurant) and Mr. Yassen Panov (Art Director of Bakhus Magazine) on the interior design and functionality of the Restaurant and Bar Facilities in Orpheus Valley

The Main Restaurant will have space for more than 200 people and this is where breakfast, lunch and dinner will be served to the tourists and owners with show cooking facilities in it.

Gourmet Restaurant A La Carte will be located in section A.

In Section C, there will be also Vinotheque - a wine bar where you can taste and buy some of Bulgaria's most famous red and white wines.

...More news to follow

If anyone's property is shortly due to be completed or just interested in independant status report /snagging list done, by a company I have recently used, PM me as I will be using  this company again and to cut travel cost for them to go to pamporovo, This can be share by anyone who would like a status report within this development.

We have recently used them for our other apartment and was very happy with the service, hence want to use them for our Orpheus Valley apartment. If you do want a independant status report for your apartment (which is always a good thing if you can't get over in the immediate future), then weather we group together and share travel cost or you use then indivdually yourselves I do recommend them, They provide a thorough report and pictures of your apartment.

If anyone is interested PM me for details.

Hello RowanJ,

Obtaining mortgages through Bulgarian Bank is more complicated because of many factors and last but not least Bulgarian Banks still prefer to work with Bulgarian citizens, rather than foreigners, due to the fact that lending money to a foreign person is more risky due to the distance.

I'm not specialist in mortgages. Our solicitors deal with mortgages, so you can contact them and they will explain you what's the situation exactly.

As for the Schedule of Encumbrances, it is part of the whole procedure of obtaining mortgage, which takes time and if we have promised to deliver this document, we will do so, despite that this is not our obligation following the Preliminary Contract.

Once again I must underline that there is a person who deals with such matters and if you have any questions with regards to mortgages, you can contact Martin Markov at:

mm@bulgare.org

As far as I know there are not many Bulgarian Developers who assist with mortgages, while we do our best to help our owners.

I uploaded some images from our archive.

These pictures were taken on different dates, so I just put 19th of March (as date) but for some reason instead of year 2008, it appeared 2006.

I hope you will like the pictures. 

If you have more questions it will be a pleasure to answer.

We had some problems getting in touch with some of the owners in the past as some of them changed addresses and didn't inform us. It is good that there is a forum when you discuss all matters about Orpheus Valley and it is important for us to keep the owners informed.

Nikolay

Hi Nikolay,

Its good that we have a representative from Bulgare on this forum, so more immediate questions maybe answered.

This forum does have a gallery, you can upload your  photos by clicking the progress photo button at the top of the page and then the upload photos button.

My colleague Stiliyana and our law department is dealing with your case.

I don't think this is the place to discuss personal matters though. As far as I know, we're doing everything we can in order to help you getting the mortgage asap.

Hello,

We do not have a problem. It is just burocracy and it takes slightly longer because this document has to go through different authorities in the Register Agency, i.e. we do not have control over this matter.

I hope this is if some help.

I think it will be a good idea, if there is a gallery in this message board.

I can supply you with many pictures from the site,  construction progress and Pamporovo region.

Yes, I have a question for you.  Why is it taking so long to get the Schedule of Encumbrances document to the bank so they can complete my mortgage.?  Are you having a problem?  You wont be able to get paid otherwise!

Anyone else having problems with mortgages?

Dear Members,

If you have any questions about Orpheus Valley, please feel free to contact our customer support Stiliyana Stocheva at:

ss@bulgare.org

If yoy have any questions about the rental contract or the furniture, feel free to contact Mrs. Svetla Slavova from Balkan Hotel Management Company at:

rental.orpheusvalley@bhmc.eu

It is quite strange that some of you felt isolated over this purchase as we have our web-site with our details which can be easily found when you type Bulgare Development in google. Also we have micro web-site of the development and we try to get back to our owners straightaway and keep them informed about all important matters.

Rental Scheme:

I believe our rental scheme is unmatched in Pamporovo resort as it gives you the opportunity to sign a long-term rental contract of 22.5% over 5 years. Before we launched the rental scheme we had many meetings with tour operators and experts in tourism and we believe what we have to offer is quite good, considering the fact that BHMC will not charge Management Fee. Usually in such kind of complexes there is a Management fee which varies between 15% and 50% taken by the management company from the generated annual income. With Orpheus Valley, there is NO MANAGEMENT FEE if you sign guaranteed rental contract.

Furniture:

You are only oblige to buy furniture from us if you want to sign a Rental Contract. If you want to use the apartment yourselves you are free to put whatever furniture you might put whatever furniture you like. The furniture packages are in accordance with the hotel regulations. As you know we don't want to oblige owners to buy kitchen because there will be all the restaurant and bar facilities in the complex. I don't think you will be able to find better prices for the furniture we offer unless it is a bad quality. 

We will appreciate if you contact the management company in advance and inform them about what furniture you would like to order. It will make their life much easier as they need to order the furniture from the manufacturers and give them enough time for delivering the furniture. Thanks in advance.

Completion:

We already have document Akt 15 for sections A & B and the show apartment is almost ready and we can send you some interior pictures already. Please send me an email at nd@bulgare.org and I will send you some recent exterior and interior pictures.

Completion of sections D and E will be around MAy when we will have act 15, while completion of Block C will be in July.

We will open the hotel and the owners of apartments in Phase 1 (A-E) will be able to use their apartments in the winter season 2008-09.

THe completion of second phase is as per schedule - July 2009.

Flights:

All the Balkan Holidays charter flights go to Plovdiv in the winter and as far as I know you can book a holiday to Pamporovo through all the major tour operators. The transfer from Plovdiv is 1h 1/2.

There are regular flights to Sofia through: BA, Bulgaria Holidays, WhiZZ, Easy Jet. The transfer from Sofia takes 3 hours.

---

I will try to spend more time on this forum but please if you have any questions don't hesitate to contact us directly.

Kind Regards

Nikolay Dafovski

Hi - I'm so glad to have found this forum, as I was beginning to feel very isolated over this purchase.   I have so much to ask people so forgive me for this post being soooo long

We have purchased apartment D3 in this development.  I think the furniture package seems very expensive and alot more than we were originally give as an indication of the price when we first signed up for this apartment.

Does anyone else have any cheaper furniture solutions?

We are also considering just keeping this property for ourselves with maybe a handful of private rentals to family and friends - as at 4.5% income, it hardly seems worth getting our furniture ruined!

Right now I'm more concerned as to when we will be able to have our first stay in Orpheous and can't seem to get a definitve answer despite e-mailing.  Any ideas when the first date the D3 block will be useable?

I think we are going to use Maxgold internation solicitors for the completion they are quoting £900.00 - does anyone else have any other suggestions on the legal side of it?

On our original contract the maintenance fee is stated as 8 euros per sq m - now it is 12 surely this can't just be put up without prior warning?  Any ideas?

The completion date was due to be Dec 07 and now I can't seem to get a definitive date for one.  I understand from the contract if it goes past 6 months we are entitled to cancel the purchase for a full refund of all money paid plus lost interest?  Does anyone else feel the same about this?

I'm glad the developer is on this forum I also intend to contact him direct for these questions?

Ok - Travel, can't find any flights to Plovdiv can anyone else?

Thats it for now, again apologies for the many topics

Help is much appreciated

I brought in 2 and a half years ago, so hope your right RowanJ...

Cheers

I think the people who will be making the most money out of it is the ones who bought right at the start, maybe about 3 years ago, any one trying to get into it now will be missing the boat.  It's like those folk who bought in Spain all those years ago, look what their property is worth now, albeit, not so good on the coast at the moment.  I bought a place in Spain for £45,000 5 years ago and it is now worth £150,000, I should imagine Bulgaria will follow suit, but it's like everything else you have to get in first in these emerging markets, it's no good thinking about it, you have to do it.   There will be no re-sale market for quite some time I expect, as there is always a better deal with the developer, but they cant go on building forever in these ski places, so that's when the re-sale will come into play hopefully.

With regard to completion, I am told that Section B, where I am buying is complete, but I cant finalise my mortgage as the developer hasnt provided papers which are needed to do so.

I have to agree with both of you...great development,  fantastic facilities not so good  rental package.

Regardless of what the developers are selling for, we will only make our profit when we sell. The developer could put prices up 50%, doesnt mean we'll make 50% profit though.

But I would certainly rather see the developer be putting prices up year on year than decreasing them though..

Anyone heard any more about completion dates for the various section...particularly  section D ?

Just to finish off i do happen to believe this is a good site but its just the rental package which is poor. If you want to take this on yourself it may prove to be more profitable.

The 4.5 per cent is net though, it is about 9 per cent gross.  You may achieve 4.5 yourself, but you would have to pay the management company maintenance and insurance at the rate of 12 E per sq. metre, pay someone to change the sheets and clean etc and probably pay to have it advertised on some web-site.

I have done a bit of research myself on these rental websites and if you check out the prices and availability hardly any of them are booked.  I agree you may get £350 a week perhaps for the peak season, but I should imagine not many bookings for the summer.

Berni, I agree, 4.5% is quite low when you consider the restrictions, on using your own apartment.

It's all about lifestyle I guess though. if you plan to use the apartmernt with friends and family and enjoy your purchase, then it's not a great deal

If you never planed to use it or only for 2 weeks between friends and family  and can't be bothered with any hassle of trying to find rentals, it's not great again...but it  should pay for the up keep.

If you don't mind trying to rent it yourself,  you'll have the best of both worlds, rental on your terms and access to your apartment whenever you choose, (after all it is your).

Now the question is will I be able to get rental? 

This is anybodies guess in this market,  but as there is usally full occupancy in pamporovo in peak season I guess you will get some rental especially if the development is going to be a good as exceptions suggest. You may not get all year rental, but then again you certainly wouldn't need to get all year rentals to get 4.5% return yourself!!

Hi,

I have also bought into this development, I am D29.  I am currently looking into the variable vs the fixed rental options. 

Darren

Hi Everyone,

We have purchased E11, just wondering if anyone is thinking of renting out there property by themselves? If so have you any idea on who would be able to look after your property, i.e. maintain, clean etc, etc, Just wondering if anyone has look into this as yet?  

Does any one have any idea what this furniture is going to look like are you all buying from Bulgare or going elsewhere for this?

Any way won’t be long now; hopefully the Euro gets better for our final payment, fingers crossed!

Look forward to hearing from you,

Kim

Hi,

Please I have found this site, I think it is very useful.

Bought B10 two years ago, paid approx £49,000 for it.  As we put 50 per cent down we got a five per cent reduction in price, also managed to get a bit of money off their basic furniture package.  I am pleased to see that the same apartment would cost 83,000 E( an increase of about 11,000E) to buy now.

Taking out a mortgage with Bulgarian Home Loans for 50 per cent of the price, but this has proved to be a complicated process.  After at least six months I am told that the mortgage should be ready for signing off, but they are awaiting a Schedule of Encumbrances from the Developer, which has not been forthcoming despite chasing for a few months now.  Completion of the apartment was supposed to be30th December, 07 when we purchased the property, but are now being told February time - my guess is it will be a lot longer, but not to worry.

We have opted for the Rental Agreement with the fixed rate over five years.  The return on rental will only cover the 50 per cent we have borrowed, so we will be relying on capital growth over the next five years.  I just wonder about selling these places as there are so many new developments, there will not be any re-sale market for quite some time.

Hi All - Just found this site today,

We have purchased E19 and it is due to complete in April/May.  We are very confused regarding the final contracts and final costs as well as the Rental Contracts. 

If anyone is up to speed and feel they can make this all a little clearer that would be great.  The rental agreement does not seem to give much return so we are planning to manage it our selves.  We are also interested in the Variable Rental plan so if anyone can explain this it would be very much appriciated.

Kind Regards

Hi all,

I have just seen the new pictures of block A (211107). They look good. Does anyone have any pictures of the interior of block A of any apartment intended to be the show apartment. I see the snow is there now and it should be a good season.