Hi All,

Later than promised I know- but things are moving exceedingly slowly. I would now urge all Saffron customers who have purchased on Magnum and are at all dissatisfied to speak to them direct  - the contact is Tanya on 01635 39173. Tanya told me emails were being sent out to all  Magnum clients on Monday to gauge support for the letter Jo and Alan at propertymattersoverseas have drafted - the idea being to send this to the Moroccan Embassy to be forwarded to the King. It is an excellent letter, carefully pitched, and, as I have already heard from about a quarter of their clients, I have no doubt that it represents their views. However Saffron still have not sent out emails. The problem is that 15 July was the date given for The King's visit to Saidia and 17 July for the start of the handover of the apartments! We are up against a real deadline here.

Tanya also told me that Richard Dear was composing a letter to be sent directly to the King. I know no more. However I would mention that Richard promised to respond to my concerns on1 July a.s.a.p. and I am still waiting to hear from him!

Finally I have to report that Legalex have decided to charge an additional 500 Euros on top of the amount originally agreed for their legal work on Magnum and are now asking that half of this new amount be paid immediately !  I  can hear the collective groans !  They argue that the VAT increase ,and payment of it, and replies to requests made by the developer and their lawyer, have created extra work - with  negotiations that were not included in their completion service. Personally I am loath to pay anything upfront at this stage and have asked Paul Staines if he can bring any pressure to bear. What do others think?

I don't know how anyone can say completion date is to be July, when we have not heard anything from Fadesa for months.  Surely they can't expect people to drop everything and rush out to Saidia to sign for their properties with only a few days notice!  I have emailed them recently but I've had no response.

I am just so fed up of all the uncertainty, rumour etc. My main concern is the possible lack of a guaranteed rental scheme - I don't want to be lumbered with maintenance charges, but more importantly I don't want my apartment sitting empty for months on end.  I have no desire to visit Saidia myself, and the guaranteed rental scheme was the main reason I purchased a Magnum apartment.

Regarding the additional TVA, I am expecting to have to pay it, and although I'm not happy about it, I have budgeted for it.  At the end of the day, I think there is money to be made from this development eventually, and its just a matter of holding on for a year or two until the site takes off and people want to buy there.  I can't understand anyone wanting to pull out of the contract at this stage - just hang in there!

 Gavin,

It seems this letter went out to all the disaffected in an attempt to mollify us. With regard to VAT I am told that later contracts were differently worded. However, the principle remains and I think Addoha should absorb the increase for all their clients on Magnum.

With the furniture, it would clearly be impossible to change all the cupboard doors and worktop surfaces in the space of ten days- so they are asking us to complete with the promise that this will be done?  They cannot be serious?!

I think they are a little rattled and are trying the familiar tactics of divide and rule. The vehemence expressed by many who have contacted me at taureanjohn@yahoo.co.uk suggests that they are wasting their time.

Jo is currently drafting the letter to the King . Saffron have agreed to come on board. They are also trying to get more information on the Company that is meant to be running Magnum.

I will post again tomorrow.

Good Morning

I received an e-mail from Pascal last night, the gist of it is:

VAT

There is a different solution for each buyer (???)

Finishes

2 kinds of patio furniture, kitchen worktop surfaces and cupboard doors will be offered.

Completion

Will be 15th July

Letting

An agreement is in place with a company who will take charge and run Magnum

In a few days they will inform us about a last issue concerning the Magnum plot

I too have sent emails to Pascal and Mari stating my worries, that I feel they are in breach of contract, that I feel there should be a reduction of 20% in the price and that I have no intention of paying the final 60% as things stand.

If anyone is just watching on this board please do the same or sign up with John (or both).

It is vital that as many people as possible let Fadesa and the King know how strongly we feel, in the current climate it is a buyers market and this is our best chance of ensuring that Fadesa deliver what was promised to us.

This can be a wondeful site if delivered according to the vision and promises that we all signed into.

Hi All,

I have sent emails to Pascal and Mari stating I will not be completing whist Fadesa/Addoha are in breach of contract.  I have informed them I am collating details of the many disaffected customers posting on this forum and elsewhere. And I have stated that we are considering petitioning The King prior to his visit.  Jo from propertymattersoverseas had already suggested this and I think it is an excellent idea. The King has berated Fadesa in the past and it was He who insisted on the exterior of Magnum being given a more traditional Moroccan finish ( which incidentally was the cause of much of the delay) I have also stated that we intend to act collectively so as to ensure our demands are met.

I have contacted Legalex with regard to the TVA . I thank those who have emailed me with their names and apartment numbers. Again the address is : taureanjohn@yahoo.co.uk.

To all you folk concerned about handover / snagging right now, I wonder if you should not try and write to the King.

Probably sounds a bit crazy but according to the press G Brown and other high rollers have been contacted by us plebs and gotten somewhere recently, so you never know. I just have this feeling noone at Fadesa gives a damn. Why not write to Fades's president and tell him an action group from the UK intends contacting the King.

I bet the King has no idea of whats going on on the ground and would be fuming if he were to be made aware.

If this truly is such a high profile project for him, there must be some way of making contact.

Sorry if this sounds far fetched.

As I alluded to in my previous message and as others have commented, if we all adopt the position that we are not prepared to to complete on the contract until such time as Fadesa adhere to the terms of the contract then Fadesa will be put in a very awkward postion. Fadesa need the 60% balance payable and can ill afford for us all not to complete in the current economic climate.

I have emailed Mari Carmen at Fadesa (copied in P Bossan) over the weekend to reiterate that I will not be paying VAT at 20% and to stress that unless the terms of the contract are honoured I expect my deposit back or compensation in the form of a significant price reduction. I am not paying magnum prices for an inferior product.

Is there anyone here purchasing on AP5.  Is anyone else thinking of going ahead/trying to sell on or walking away from the contract.? 

I am seriously concerned over the outcome of this investment and whether the Moroccan Government/Fadesa are looking to resolve any of the issues.?

Feed back from other investors would be a great help

Tim

I too, have sent an email to Fadesa complaining about TVA issue, quality of Kitchens etc.

Howard

Just wondering whats's happened to the customer satisfaction survey you were going to design and present the findings to Fadesa/Addoha to make them more accountable?

I have a 'Magnum'.I am using Legalex and my agent is SV.I will not be completing until all issues are resolved.

Hi All,

Best to email pbosson@fadesa.es  as he is the main man on site at Saidia and it was he who signed the letter confirming the increase in TVA.  Also as " Captain" noted earlier , Pascal would seem to be an honourable man. The alternative email I gave is for Mari in London who was the one who sent off the letter- and that should have read : mquesada@fadesa.co.uk.

I agree wholeheartedly with your sentiments Webster. I believe we are in a very strong position as long as we all stand together. Fadesa /Addoha are in need of our monies- that is why they are attempting to rush things now.  With the APs they threatened to revoke contracts if completion was delayed- allowable under the terms of the contract- but the reality was that they never did! And they still have not sold all the apartments on AP6.  As I see it we only benefit from any delay.  At the moment  rental would be non-existant,  there would be no hotel  ,the pool area would be uninviting (no planting ) ,and the apartments would need serious snagging. Hopefully ,once the TVA issue is resolved, we can stand together to ensure that the apartments are delivered to the high standard and specification that  we were originally promised.

With the classification- tourist or residential-I am told that no final decision has been made. I imagine they are praying daily for a hotel to sign on the dotted line. This is obviously highly unsatisfactory- but our hands are tied until we know the outcome..

Hi All,

Jo from propertymattersoverseas has asked me to collate all the names and apartment numbers of those who wish to join forces in objecting to the imposition of the new rate of VAT. You can either post publicly or email me at the following address: taureanjohn@yahoo.co.uk.

Tanya from Saffron has also confirmed that they will be working in tandem with propertmattersoverseas.

Also ,I am sure it would shock Addoha/Fadesa if ,on Monday morning, they were to receive many individual emails from irate clients complaining about the VAT decision and stating that they intend to take collective action. The email address to send replies is: pbosson@fadesa.es or mquesda@fadesa.co.uk.

There are also members on the Saidia forum who are deeply unhappy and Jo will be contacting them for their support.

Finally this is meant to be The King's flagship resort- with Magnum the jewel in the crown!The King is due to visit on 15 July- perhaps we should petition Him or take one to the Moroccan Embassy? He has already expressed displeasure with Fadesa and was responsible for the restyling of the frontage of Magnum; I would be surprised if He had been made aware of our concerns. What do others think?

I am a Magnum owner, having purchased through SV and would support any action to right what is quite obviously a very big wrong!

Sticking together is by far the best way forward, some of us are much less experienced at purchasing abroad and it would be better to be part of a group with more experienced purchasers so as not to be bullied into anything, my only concern is numbers out there who own Magnums, I am assuming that there are French / Spanish etc buyers aswell, who we have no contact with. therefore the numbers of purchasers in the UK might not be many compared with the actual number of apartments making up Magnum, which I think someone mentioned is 228.

Thanks Gavin,

Addoha have definitely not delivered on their promises. Apparently Kenza visited Saidia  and it was after this that the Minutes of the Meeting were produced which reduced three quarters of an hour of heated discussion- with Addoha promising to improve the kitchens- to the following observation: that the kitchen units were reflected in the price. And even that statement  does not hold water. The kitchens are identical to the APs( except smaller! ) -Magnum prices were significantly higher to reflect the fact that the finish was meant to be on a par with Le Jardin de Fleur ( and you can see their superb kitchen on Richard's Kodakgallery.)

It would appear that the workforce is not in place to do the work-  and Richard's blog was at best misleading in this respect.  However delayed completion would probably be in our best interests at this stage so all we need now is a united front to show Addoha that we mean business- they do at least  have the wherewithal to deliver.

I am a Magnum owner (at present) !!

!

Hi All,

The time to support John and flex our muscles, here is a good chance (at no expense) for us to show our feelings about the VAT, if people don't step up on this the you can assume that no other improvments will be made and you will be left with an AP finish but having paid top dollar for it.

Please contact your agent now about this matter.

I we have any other Magnum owners who are just reading this board could they please let themselves be known so that we have some idea of how much pressure we apply.

Hi Patster,

I do not doubt that what you say is true. At one time Saffron were employing a professional surveyor to report back on this problem. Whether this ever came to anything, I do not know.

Yes I am using Legalex and think Macarena is excellent.  Fadesa have shown their hand with regard to the TVA-  asking for the 20%- and I have emailed Macarena pointing out that (1) they are in breach of contract as completion was promised approx. 24 months after the granting of the municipal building permit and (2) all payments were to include TVA calculated at the statutory rate when the preliminary contract was signed. 

Propertmattersoverseas -who represent about ten clients purchasing on Magnum- are intending to ask their solicitor to send off a letter threatening to take this to the Moroccan courts. They will be asking for the support of all their clients but are also happy to include anyone else. I have suggested to Saffron that they- having more clients-should perhaps confer with them with the intention of sending off a joint letter. .There is obviously strength in numbers. I cannot believe that Fadesa /Addoha would want the bad publicity at this sensitive time nor that they would want to run the risk of purchasers cancelling in the present economic climate.

Nope, that password etc for Kodakgalleries does not work on all 3 computers I have tried!!

by the way, is anybody else using Legalex to complete?

Taureanjohn...."hack out the damp plaster from the base of the walls and replace it"? How will that fix the underlying problems? You are talking about brand new apartments with severe damp problems, and on a penthouse! Are alarm bells not ringing that there are major issues with the dampcourse?.....I am not an expert on dampcourses but the way I saw it in December was that when it rains (and it rains hard in Saidia in the winter) the patios are filling with water and the dampcourse (if one exists) is insufficient to stop the walls acting like a sponge. I also have serious concerns about the outside drains being located under the patio walls with access provided by  what I can only describe as a mouse-hole. How are we supposed to clear these drains in the event of a blockage? Also, as I have mentioned previously I suggest everyone checks the levels of their patios...rolling a golf-ball is an easy way to ensure the water will flow towards the drains. Everyone needs to do this and insist that remedial work is carried out correctly. If not, the management companies, ie. us, will be left to pick up the bill once completion takes place.

Gavin,

I agree with you 100% and I too will not be signing as things stand.

 Saffron promised in their brochure that we would have access to all the affiliated hotel facilities; Paul promised me he would check the legal situation with regard to the increase in TVA. and has failed to do so- even though he has been advised that the independent solicitor employed by proprtymattersoverseas has confirmed that the contract is unambiguous in this respect;; Saffron -despite their protestations- do not seem to be totally on our side. Richard states that there are 120 workers on AP6. I am reliably informed that there are seven-and that two of these are gardeners! Perhaps that is why -despite numerous promises- the work on my planters has yet to be been completed. You still need to go out there to get anything done- as Steve (Captain) will confirm. There are not enough workers for all the snagging problems now;  if Magnum comes on line they will be overwhelmed.  Saffron should have challenged Addoha much more vigorously.  Kenza promised to go on site to check out the kitchens. I still cannot find out whether she has done this or not.. They promised me a copy of the minutes of the Meeting with Addoha . These never materialized; it was left to another agent to inform me that the improvements agreed to the kitchens had been excised by Addoha. Did not this ring alarm bells? You can see a photo of the kitchen on Richard's Kodakgallery. At the very least it needs the cupboard doors changed- as had originallybeen proffered by Addoha- with a more suitable worktop- that is, thicker, non-porous, and colour coordinated.  And why have my original concerns not been addressed?  When I inspected my penthouse many months ago Aziz,  in charge of snagging at that time, agreed that the spiral staircase , being rusty beyond repair,  needed replacing;  that the sun terrace needed to be retiled;  and that the damp plaster at the base of all my walls needed to be hacked out and replaced. All messy jobs that should be done prior to furniture being in place!  So what has happened? Nothing. Have Saffron inspected my apartment as promised? ?? I rest my case.

I had the same problem in accessing Kodakgallery using the password given as it says email or password is not invalid.

Gavin

Is it me, or can anybody else NOT get into Kodakgallery using the password?

Hi All,

Personally, I do not think that any improvements will be done to the Kitchens. To take the worktop out, to re-connect plumbing back up and re-place with new worktops and to take off kitchen unit doors and re-place with new and to box in boiler would take 2 men two days. With 228 apartments on site, that would work out 456 days to complete. More men, of course, could be put on site and then the timescale could be somewhat reduced. 

As for the rest of what we have been hearing, I once again say that I will not be giving any more money over before I receive a new contract that myself and a solicitor can look over. 

If it doesn't suit my needs, I will be pressing for some major compensation.

Gavin, I also have a toddler, share your concerns completely and find your posts alarming.  I bought my apartment on AP2 with very good intentions and  feel I have been mis-sold. I find Fadesa's dissregard for the contracts of magnum buyers (indeed all buyers) to be further cases of mis-selling. I have a simple suggestion. If they want to renege on thier promises then we do likewise. If they want completion they can renegotiate prices, and I don't mean up...otherwise they should prepare for a lot of buyers to walk away and in the current economic climate there wont be a big rush to fill our shoes.

The boiler will be covered, apparently they have agreed to that.

But you would have hoped that the planting would be well advanced by know, trees after all do not grow overnight. So the place will not look finished until next season, and we won't have use of Barcelo and their pool and facilities until 'Spring 09' (when the flights will start).

I have no intention of signing until:

The Kitchens are finished to a much higher spec

We have flatscreen TVs

Proper stylish garden furniture

Completed gardens both in my garden apartment and around the Magnum site.

The air-con is sorted, I have a 3 year old, I would like to be a 4 year old with both hands.

Air-con is aesthetically boxed, air-con is a blight on the world and in a Magnum it needs to be disguised.

The apartments will still be serviced as this is done from the central core of Magnum not from the hotel (or so I have been told) but obviously you won't be able to use the hotel facilities.

Another worry is that the 3 hotels have agreed (after discussions with the airlines) not to open until Spring 09, what happens if they decide  (after discussions with the airlines) not to open until Sprin 2010?

Basically no one hotel will open without the others and without there being cheap direct flights, if they decide that the site is not far enough advanced to be used as a holiday destination they will postpone. This will leave us paying out more mortgage with no way of letting your property, and you can't even enter the letting pool as no-one will be running it.

went to site  unannounced last week and managed to check out  Magnum- agree some progress made except Block 8 which is a total wreck. The golf course is nicely grassed there is none or very little planting within Magnum the swimming pool is sizeable but the area around it needs tidying up. The kitchen units are of very poor quality the boiler is exposed the plastic garden furniture looks like the type you might be given free with a can of oil at the local BP. The airconditioning unit  admittedly from a distance looked like it had been sited too low and wouldn't pass Health and Safety even in Greece. Peering in the tv's were definitely not flat screens.

Hotel 1 looked very large and impressive but far from complete-I was led to believe that we wouldn't be asked to complete until it  and the rest of Magnum was finished. Not sure what the effects would be if RT1 became an AP -the reason I signed up was the promises of a premium product managed by the hotel with room service etc

Just spoken to Paul at Saffron Villas.

They will chase up Fadesa again about improvements to the Kitchen, TV and garden furniture.

His understanding is that VAT is payable at 20%, it is all amatter of whether or not the Developer picks up the difference, Properrty Logic contracts clearly state that they will pick up any difference, Fadesa contracts are not so clear.

You know what to do

So from the newsletter we now know the following:

VAT - Nothing

Kitchen Improvements - Nothing

Hotel opening - Nothing

Plastic Garden furniture - Nothing

Air Con - Nothing

Direct Flights - Nothing

My personal opinion:

Yes, everything looks nice, but nothing is complete, the King is coming on 15th July to sign off Magnum & the Commercial Centre and yet they are from completion.

Most of the site still looks like a building site, I certainly wouldn't want to rent out my apartment as I don't feel that anyone would want to return and their feedback would be negative.

Supposedly numerous restaurants and bars will be open in August but they look well short of completion.

Supposedly the hotels will start opening in Spring 2009, but we were told they woiuld open a year ago, Spring 2009 could well become Autumn 2009 thus a whole year of paying for your apartment but with no reasonable chance of letting it out.

I also believe that with so much of the site still to be completed that once you have signed and paid you will be forgotten about. It appears to have been a long and arduous journey to get snagging completed prior to final signing and payment so imagine how long you may wait when something goes wrong.

Will there be a dedicated team of maintenance bods for the completed site?

Will there be dedicated claeaning teams for the paths, roads and beach?

Will we ever get any feedback that is solid rather than 'this may happen at some point in the future'?

I still believe in this site but don't think that it is a realistic holiday destination for at least another 12 months and don't see why I should be expected to stump in the remaing 60% in August.

Dear Gavin,

Thank you very much for your information. Where can you see the updated photos you mention in your message? Is Barcelo taking the hotel again? This is a good news. According to my latest news they were going to give up because of the late delivery and RIU was negotiating to take their place.

After a quick call to SV, Richard will have more of an update soon, and photos are being updated now:

Comletion should be August.

VAT will probably be 20%

Still no news about upgrades to Kitchen

Air-conditioning still an eyesore on the garden side of the property

Plastic chairs and tables forgarden still shown on latest photos (updated yesterday)

Magnum may become AP9 but no confirmation as yet, but this could mean losing some of the services that were available via the Barcello for free.

Barcello will not open until April

Marina plus bars & restaurants will open in August.

I await an newsletter from SV with bated breath.

DRJP

I agree with you on the lack of progress photos, espcially on LEJARDINDEFLEUR, whom claim to be a 5* outfit.

It will benefit us all if we each kick up some noise on this. Remember LJDF promises of a live webcam, but then this became monthly updates. Some of thier project photos have not been updated for 7 monthhs and even the photos for the 2 sites (RT2 and 7) that seem to be pressing ahead, are few and far between.

 Hi All,

 As the person who originally suggested collective action I am heartened by the level of support for this. The contract clearly states that the TVA will be paid at the rate in force when the contract was signed and dated- that was 14%. The contract promised (1) 2%rental guarantee for two years (2) purchasers who accepted  the rental guarantee would be excused from paying maintenance charges (3) that the properties would be fully maintained and serviced. Fadesa and the agents led us to believe that this would be the finest specification and finish and that we would have use of the facilities of the affiliated hotel. Fadesa have in fact told one agent that they will accomplish (sic) everything that is in the contract.- so let us first see what wednesday brings. I will contact Richard tomorrow to see what pressure (if any) he has been able to bear.

 With regard to the name Magnum this was always used alongside RT1 so I do not see why it cannot still be used in conjunction with AP9. I agree the name has a certain cachet.